TWA Flight 800 Investigation Should be Reopened

There's a lot of information about this tragedy that has apparently been lost. According to many reports, the FBI was deeply involved and had custody of important evidence which has been "lost."

I agree a full investigation should be done, but I fear the information needed has disappeared.

I have a website that describes my take on what happened but as you don't allow links I will reduce it to one comment. Question Why were there so many witness?

My answer. The plane was destroyed by a large missile that was supersonic. It emitted a shock wave that sounded like thunder and caused many people to look up before TWA 800 was hit.

A further question is why has this never been addressed?

Al

I guess it's time call the Numero Un Tirapiedidi tutti di Tirapiedi, the comatose Lee Hamilton to chair another "impartion inquiry into the TWA 800 affair for which he is soooo well qualified. He never investigated a total government Farkup/Coverup he couldn't white wash. This is the go to guy for unmitigated claptrap. For those wanting a whitewash investigation. He's as reliable with this as Fido fetching a stick. He's got the intellectual and moral integrity of a dog biscuit.

The Skeptical Cynic

I guess it's time call the Numero Un Tirapiedidi tutti di Tirapiedi, the comatose Lee Hamilton to chair another "impartion inquiry into the TWA 800 affair for which he is soooo well qualified. He never investigated a total government Farkup/Coverup he couldn't white wash. This is the go to guy for unmitigated claptrap. For those wanting a whitewash investigation. He's as reliable with this as Fido fetching a stick. He's got the intellectual and moral integrity of a dog biscuit.
0 !
Reply#7 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:00 AM EDT

Yes, a missile shot down Flight 800. It was not a 'terrorist'. It was not some 'naval exercise accident'. It was a payback. You cheat, you pay. You cheated: you paid.
You want it investigated? Just keep digging and you will see the responsible parties. You, (if American), are the responsible party(s). You would be investigating yourselves. Perhaps you should.
Facts:
1-A few weeks prior to the shoot-down fighters escorted some oversea passenger air-flights, some out of Miami.
2-Hundred of witnesses swear that they saw videos of the shoot-down right on CNN just hours after it happened.
3-CNN would not give any information out concerning this. (Do not worry if fake or real video – here it does not matter)
4-Almost just as many witnesses swear that they watched CNN all during that time period and saw no such video.

Which group was telling the truth? How about both. How? CNN is cable. Was a video agreed to for just some geographic areas for just 'enough sting' to the payback but not too much? So you would feel it, need scramble around a bit to cover, but still could?

5-Go back to the Perry et al witnesses on Fire Island. In her accounts she described a naval ship, oddly close to shore with no visible watch. Her descriptions were of an odd bow and giant 'globe' between fore and mid-ship. FBI questions her and shows her a tiny, very tiny, picture out of Jane' Fighting Ships and state that she identified an American Spruance-class destroyer. That very tiny picture did have some globes in it. But they were more added 'label balloons' such as the balloons with pointers that hold talking in a cartoon! There were only two warships that fit Perry's written description. One was a British Frigate, the H.M.S. Norfolk. There was also a Benelux frigate with a large globe afore but not the odd bow of the Norfolk. But no others. You must check old pictures of the H.M.S. Norfolk as that large globe is not there now.
6-Though Commander Donaldson did think it 'terrorist' he was honest enough to report truthfully information that did not fit the 'terrorist' theory. Commander Donaldson did give the witnesses who saw U.S. Naval SEAL teams in rubber boats in the early morning (pre dawn) hours prior to the shootdown but in the exact area it came down. They were waiting for what? A 'terrorist' that they did not even scramble after (30 knot target) or waiting for a 'naval exercise accident'? Or did they then know exactly? (Commander Donaldson did have honor. In a radio interview he admitted that this was the first time he did not believe the media. So understandable. But had the honor to give evidence even though it did not fit his theory.)

You came up with the deal that you cheated on. And you have done this now more than once. Oppenheimer made a speech the day between the two bombs on Japan. In one part he was almost crying. Then he became upbeat. He noted that now war must cease as nukes, "…too easy to make…". And they are. You have made the public think it is difficult now for six decades. You then noted that even threatening a nuke would be catastrophic. Let us take now for example: You are told by some group that they have two nukes. They tell you the exact location where they placed one in one of your mid sized cities. It is on a hill. Of course. Altimeters were used with your Japan nukings as 100 meters up would have the greatest effect. Just as the group said it is hidden in the hull of a yacht on a trailer. Stern reads: 'Fat Boy II' – 'Lake Chad Yacht Club'. (Guys is South America loved that one.) Second note reads, 'Get you dumb UN out of Dufar now or you have two weeks to evacuate LA.'. What do you do? Not deal with terrorists?
So you, (with Luce brokering), went to Joe Stalin. You suggested that you continue making nukes but have a secret deal not to use them. In other words this would not be handled like mustard gas after WW I. Joe says, (in effect), "…I love it, I love it. But I can't go for it. I am in charge here so you can trust me. We never know who is in charge there…". So Luce and Donovan use Fortune Magazine to prove to Joe that Ike not Commander and Chief. (Esner's History of Time Inc. Vol II.). Luce takes China into the deal in Tehran. On the 30 hour flight back to NY he is handed a note. China crossed the Yalu and entered Korea. Of course. They knew they would not be nuked. Others came in. The big front for this was the UN Security Council. You do a great job saying how difficult a nuke is to make when it is simple. At first you thought of controlling all uranium mines. But discoveries just keep coming. So you go to great odds to make the your public think they are hard to make. You make them believe that they must have special equipment to mine it when the most common tool is still the pneumatic jackhammer. You plant slick 'alternate media' rumors that they only go off in certain geographic locations or that the 'aliens will stop them'.
You have the public pay for 'missile shields' when a child can reason that you can simple sail one in on a yacht, set a timer and get on a bus. Fine. Great inside money was made and great reasons for secrecy and 'security'.
But how do you keep a secret deal honest. First the only thing to do was to agree between all that if any party to the deal had a general who seriously talked about using a nuke the others need be told right away and told exactly how this was being handled. A few years passed and this had to be more 'formal' with go-beweens. As Israel was newly formed, and already had international contacts, this would be the agreed go between. To keep the Israeli citizens paying for all this security and military a certain level of violence had to be maintained. As the Mossad would be caught doing this against itself you provided the 'other side'. (Many have Googled "Kay Griggs").
Though Putin kicks out all 'Jewish Mafia' not directly connected to nukes, (a deal is still a deal but Russia and China still the most reluctant), you let that force go wild. Your 'alternative-media-reading' 'citizens' are becoming more and more anti-Jewish even if relegated to being only 'anti-Zionist' as they, like the Israeli public, does not understand. The history of that deal has been read by a sliver of your public:

800 agreed to on highest international level. At first you objected. Sure. In a sense those that did pull the triggers were following your orders as it was part of your deal.
Now look at these glip-glops from your 'alternative citizens' calling for an investigation. They can't understand how in such as 800 the media and FBI etc would work together so hard to cover for the truth. Those citizens are more responsible for the shoot-down than you are. They feel 'good' being on the outside. They can point fingers and wring their hands. But never enough to really do anything. So the stupid, (and dangerous), deal continues.
Now even they can't help you. Perhaps they should turn the fingers toward themselves.
The 'Psychology of Mass Events' will catch up with you. Your 'alternatives' can't help you. They are too busy pointing fingers. Our hands are clean. You draw the ending to this, the deal you started, from other quarters. What will be will be.
Michael

Hello John - Excellent article - One slight clarification - It was a CIA agent sitting alone at his computer one evening when he had the epiphany - the witnesses didn't see a missile, they saw TWA800 climbing like a missile trailing flames and smoke. The CIA agent notified the FBI the following morning and then the NTSB also got on board.

with the recent FOIA lawsuit some key information has surfaced for which the government is unable to respond to, namely the original debris field tags data base was secured early and copied, and information in the original debris field data is found in NTSB exhibit 21A thus confirming that the aft section of the plane did not zoom climb. also, with the CIA statements made in Exhibit 4A addFF, all the data was not laid out in front of the CIA analyst on december 30th 1996, as Boeing did not supply any aerodynamic information to the NTSB until March of 1997, three months after the CIA already determined the cause of the crash.

The article by John Fiorentino is excellent. My role has been to show that there was no zoom-climb. The zoom-climb was an ingenious hypothesis proposed by the CIA in order to discredit the eyewitnesses who saw a bright object streak towards TWA800 prior to the explosion. If the CIA, NTSB, and FBI admit there was no zoom-climb, then they must explain what the eyewitnesses saw. The logical explanation is a missile. If the CIA, NTSB, and FBI admit there was a missile, then they must explain who fired the missile. That is the job they should have been doing in the first place. Ray Lahr

TWA Flight 800 My Theory

Allan Rydberg

Background:
It is very difficult to destroy an aircraft the size of a 747. It is even more difficult to destroy it quickly. When Korean Airlines Flight 007 was shot down by the Russian Military it survived long enough to make an abortive attempt to land.

During the cold war the U S Military was very worried about the difficulty of shooting down large Russian bombers. This concern lead to
the development of a missile equipped with a "continuos rod warhead". This warhead was composed of a drum of vertical rods. Every odd rod was attached to its adjacent neighbor rod at the top and every even rod was attached to it's adjacent neighbor rod at the bottom of the drum. An explosive charge was positioned in the center of the drum. The result of all this was a warhead that would first penetrate an aircraft and then explode. The explosive force would cause the drum of steel rods to expand like a spidel watchband. This expanding ring would cut the plane in half. Eventually other countries also began to produce continuos rod missiles.

In 1979 the Chinese produced a radar guided missile designated the HQ-61A. This was a 700 pound missile 10 inches in diameter and 13 feet long. It had a range of 7 miles traveled at mach 3 and carried a 88 pound continuos rod warhead. This is typical of the type of missile that could have been fired at TWA 800. See the following link.

In most cases missiles are guided by either the infrared emissions from the engines or radar reflections returned from various parts of the aircraft.
Of all the radar reflectors in the sky one is known for being very strong. This is the entry side of one of the four huge engines used on the 747. The following link shows the engines & landing gear of a 747. Note that the geometric center of the four engine intakes lies on the doors to the front landing gear. This can be also seen if a plastic model of a 747 is examined. Curiously there seem to be few if any plastic models available although they are available for hundreds of other plane models.

The Events Preceding the Flight:
Before the loss of TWA 800 a London newspaper article stated that a terrorist attack would occur and the world would be amazed by it's
magnitude. There is more on this is at the following link.

My Theory:
My contention is that The Israelis found out an attack was coming and made Washington aware of it. The attack may have been directed against an Israeli plane as one was scheduled to depart close to the departure time of TWA 800. The Clinton White house had to decide what to do about this threat. They devised a plan to allow the attack to take place but to foil it. The plan was to position a P3 aircraft directly above the area of the attack. Two submarines were then placed in the immediate area. The P3 is a command post in the sky with the ability to detect and track any missile in the area. The submarines could then launch anti missiles that would remove the threat. With this plan the military was confident that they could protect any aircraft in the area .

When the plan was presented to the Israelis they were not willing to put their plane at risk so the departure times were modified and TWA 800 was placed in the time slot of the Israeli plane.

The Attack:
On the evening of July 17, 1996 a group of terrorists was positioned in a boat off the south shore of Long Island. They had a continuos rod radar guided missile aboard and scanned the sky for the oncoming plane. They thought they were alone out there as no other ships were visible. On cue they saw TWA 800 approaching and launched their missile. The missile quickly gained altitude and set a course directly for the oncoming flight.

As the missile gained speed it broke the sound barrier and caused a trailing sonic boom. This sonic boom is the answer to the question of why were there so many witness. The sound of thunder caused many people to look up from whatever they were doing.

One of those people was Tom Dougherty. He statement was, "I looked up because it sounded like thunder. I kept looking trying to figure out what it was. And that's when I saw a flare come off the water. The flare, trailing orange flame, shot up roughly at a 45 degree angle, then rapidly increased its angle of ascent. Then it appeared to strike something. This was the strangest thing I ever saw. Everyone calls it a 'missile theory,' but when you see something, you know what you see, and I didn't see a 'theory'."

A few seconds earlier and far overhead the P3 crew out of Maine was a little unsure if this mission was really necessary. Nothing had happened so far and the radar operator was momentarily distracted by the conversion with his other crewmen. When he turned back to the monitor he saw that a missile was in the air headed for a commercial airliner. Instantly the alarm went out and one of the submarines launched a second missile from underwater.

It has been said that war is an imperfect science. This was surely the case with TWA 800 which should have been at a higher altitude which would have provided more response time and a margin of safety but a Providence bound flight took up the needed airspace and the TWA 800 was held to a lower than normal altitude of 13,000 feet.

Another witness Chris Bauer gave the following account, "Almost due south [of the helicopter], there was a hard white light, like burning pyrotechnics, in level flight. I was trying to figure out what it
was. It was the wrong color for flares. It struck an object coming from the right and made it explode."

The fact is that all the witness saw various perspectives of 2 missiles converging on the helpless jet. They had heard the sonic boom generated by the supersonic missile and were looking out to sea.

Disaster: As the terrorist missile approached the doomed plane the radar energy found it's way into the wiring of the 747 and prompted one pilot to commit on the action of their " crazy fuel gauge" .

The missile had homed on the intakes of the four massive jet engines, Then had triangulated these four targets to their geometric center. This center was the doors to the front landing gear. The missile impacted the aircraft on those doors, bent them inward, and caused their separation from the plane. Much later it was noted that the front landing gear doors were some of the first objects to fall from the stricken jet and they had been bent inward.

The missile caused massive damage to the front landing gear, as it tore through the plane. Inside the stricken jet the warhead detonated
and a ever expanding circle of steel rods cleanly cut the nose section off the rest of the aircraft. While all this was happening the other missile fired by the Navy in hopes of destroying the attacking missile also impacted the now fatally wounded jet under the wing. The missile explosions lit up the evening sky and were followed by burning fuel from the wing tanks.

What happened that night was no fuel tank explosion. It was also no shoulder fired missile explosion. What occurred was a massive detonation of high energy explosive. The explosion was large enough to shake the bridge Michal Wire was standing on in Westhampton Beach. His comment was " It was very loud, like a shock wave". It is impossible for a fuel explosion to produce a shock wave that was felt many miles away. There is more on the idea of a continous rod warhead at

In the months and years following the crash the government was to spend huge amounts of money trying to demonstrate how a tank of kerosene, the material used for Jet A fuel, could explode. A tank that at one point was described by the New York Times as being in "pristine" condition. This was never done. The closest they came to producing a explosion was to add propane to the fuel tank. Movies of this propane fueled tank are presented as "proof" fuel tanks can explode.

The Aftermath:
Now there was a problem. What was the government to do? If the government had the courage to tell the truth about the events
that took place the tragedy of 9-11 may have had a better chance of being detected but 1996 was an election year. Priorities had been
set and the reelection of Bill Clinton was more important than the truth about 230 people. They had foolishly gambled and lost. There was only one recourse left and that was to lie to the public.

The Lies Begin: The first step toward this was to use frogmen from the submarines to retrieve the black boxes, alter their contents and
replace them. This all took about a week. After they were recovered it came out that local fishing boats had heard the pinging of the black boxes. Then they went silent. Later the pinging reappeared and the boxes were "recovered". Finding a pinging black box has been compared to finding a lit flashlight in a dark room. Not a difficult task at all. The delay in recovering the black boxes went unchallenged by the press. Remember that the wreck lay under only 120 feet of water. Amateur divers, (admittedly good ones) have been known to visit the wreck of the Andrea Doria at a depth of 200 feet.

The next step was to discredit the 600 or so eye witness that had seen missiles heading toward TWA 800. To do this the CIA developed a so called "zoom climb theory". This theory claimed that after the nose section separated from the aircraft the plane continued to climb a few thousand feet and the ascending burning fuel trails were mistaken for missile trails.

The CD that was put out by the NTSB on the crash had results from Boeing relating to the zoom climb theory. In exhibit 22C Boeing reported on calculations that determined the center of gravity on the MAC (mean aerodynamic chord). Before the nose separation they placed it at 21.1 % after the separation it became 57.8%. This is an important number. The limits for the cg on a 747 are 13.8% to 31.5% MAC as reported in a NTSB report on a plane that slid of the runway while operating on snow and ice on December 20,1995 ( N605FF).

Simply put the zoom climb theory is preposterous. Any aircraft flies as a result of a balance of forces and the center of gravity is extremely important. Loosing the nose section will turn any aircraft into a falling object with no chance of flight of any kind. The zoom climb theory is a disgrace to our government.

The next step was to seal the satellite data on the crash. This data has still not been released to the public.

To further mislead the media a public hearing on TWA 800 was held in Philadelphia. Here the 600 eyewitnesses were simply excluded. This was an outrageous act but again went unchallenged by the press.

Even today, many years after the crash, with its official verdict of a fuel tank explosion the resulting recommendation to "inert" the fuel tanks has never been done. This is unprecedented in a industry government alliance known for a quick response to any crash that indicated other planes were at risk.

But all was not lost in this crash. The greatest gain for the government was the ability to label anyone that failed to accept their version of the crash events as a conspiracy nut. Even the media signed on to the government's version and joined a program to make a witch hunt out of anyone who dared to dispute the government's version of crash events. Another benefit was that Bill Clinton became a salesman for Boeing. He personally intervened in wooing South Africa to switch a large sale of aircraft from Airbus to Boeing. This undoubtedly was payment to Boeing for not contesting the Government's version of events.

Meanwhile on a lonely section of Long Island beach a monument stands to the people killed still proclaiming the cause of the crash as "controversial".

Of the events that followed one was especially interesting. This was an account in the Long Island paper Newsday 2 days after the crash of a
"visibly shaken" president William Clinton who was scheduled to meet with some high school students the morning after the crash. His
unease and inability to focus on the subject at hand was so noticeable that it wound up in the newspaper. His unusual behavior may have stemmed from an arrogant government attempt to gamble with the lives of innocents and then to loose.

One argument that is sometimes is heard is why did no one claim responsibility. This is simple. The attack hit the wrong plane. It
was intended to destroy the Israeli flight and erred and took down TWA 800 instead.

One last victim of the crash may have been a researcher named Jeremy Crocker who appeared on talk radio discussing his research into the crash and the role of the government. He was last seen exiting a Los Angeles library after researching the crash. Then he simply disappeared from the
face of the earth and has never been been seen again.

Thus TWA 800 has to join other stories of government secrets and threats. We should not forget that when the USS Liberty was
attacked by Israel it took 12 years for the truth to come out and Navy personnel were threatened with imprisonment if they reviled what had happened.

Similarly when a Italian airliner disappeared during a flight to Sicily it took 25 years for the truth to come out. This was that the United States and France were trying to shoot down a plane carrying Libyan leader Muammar Gadaffi over Italian airspace. They were surprised to find out that Gadaffi was accompanied by his own fighter jets and the ensuing melee lead to the crash of the civilian airliner.

With more here.

One can only wonder how long the truth of TWA 800 will take to come out.

Allan Rydberg

arydberg@yahoo.com

Email me and I can provide links for the above.

The big mystery on this one for me is from what I have read, of course skipping all the wild stories, most of it seems like it comes down to a missile getting fired at TWA800 according to the federal groups and to the eyewitnesses as to what they saw, yet I have not figured out, what happened to a search for the person or plane that shot that missile, if a missile was involved ?

That part of the equation seems very empty to me.

However your section John, is by far the best explanation I have seen, Thank you !

Certainly particular aspects of the investigation have been displaced. Certainly, aspects of the independent investigation have been considered as just theory. However, with the outstanding work provided by the plaintiffs experts and their affidavits, the burden of proof has been far exceeded by the plaintiff. Also, the government has failed to provide one outside affidavit in support of their theory. It is hard to believe that a government theory could outweigh the evidence of academia. Even as it may be, as Janda has correctly stated, that some evidence has been "Lost", the amount of evidences which has been provided, is overwhelming, and such evidence is more than sufficient to call the basis of the governments theories into question. Certainly the NTSB and CIA have failed to adequately address the Genuine Issues, and the burden of proof remains with the government. Aaron59